Greetings Phil, SqueakyBrown, Karaite and Everyone else,
I'll start in decending order.
Phil,
I agree with about 95% of what you say and write, but I respectfully disagree with you on this one. I will go over each of your choices to show why I disagree with each one.
Who is Yahshua(Chr-st)?
(A)God the Son, second of three persons who are God,
incarnated in flesh, returned to heaven.
No three persons.
(B)God the Father manifested in flesh, returned to heaven.
Not the Father.
(C)Angel of the Lord manifested in flesh, returned to heaven.
Not an Angle.
(D)Ordinary man, sinful, became Son of God by anointment, resurrected & glorified.
Not ordinary(Filled with the Set-apart Spirit since before birth.);became Son of man; suffered, died, resurrected & glorified.
(E)Man only, sinless, born the Son of God, resurrected & glorified.
More than man(filled with the Set-apart Spirit since before birth(Just like Adam prior to his fall)[a later debate, please!], gave up His Elohim(G-d) status {He was the Word and Creator in the OT,the Lawgiver to Moses,the One whom Abraham served in his tent and the One that appeared to Moses,Aaron and 70 leaders of Israel [and they lived]...}, became man, suffered, died, resurrected & glorified.
(F) Yahshua(Chr-st) is Elohim(G-d),under Elohim(G-d) the Father and IS NOT part of the Trinity.
Of the previous 5 this is the most correct.
Or at the very least:
(G) NONE of the above.
If (F) is excluded; this, [IMHO] would be the only true statement.
Phil
YOU: "However, if I understand Wayseeker correctly, he means the term God as the exalted King or Ruler, the One who was given all power in heaven and earth, the Head of all men, Yahshua."
Me
I believe you do not understand me correctly. Let me correct that right now.
Elohim(G-d) is a plural unity, a family. Currently there are only two members of that family.Yahweh Elohim (G-d the Father) and Yahshua Elohim (G-d the Son). That family will grow at some future date to include most of mankind. (The Set-apart ones 1st; and then, the rest of humanity.) At this point in history [still future]Elohim(G-d)will be; Yahwew Elohim, Yahshua Elohim[exact name unknown at this time], the Firstfruits Elohim[exact names unknown at this time] and the Rest of the [Humanity now]Elohim Family.
Next SqueakBrown;
YOU:{[quoting me]"Not only do I agree with Karaite, I further disagree with your statement: "Because we can have that same divine nature that Jesus had and we won't be God."
wayseeker if you dont agree with me, then you are disagreeing with the Word of God. Because all I done was to quote what the Word says.
2 Pet 1:4
4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."}
Again point by point.
(1) we will become Elohim(G-d)
(2) "wayseeker if you dont agree with me, then you are disagreeing with the Word of God"
I would like to point out that YOU are not the 'Word of God'
The LOGOS of Elohim(Word of G-d) is described in John 1:1,14.
(3) 2 Pet. 1:4; These promises are yet to be fufilled. We don't have that 'devine nature', yet!
(4)Please consider:All of Romans 8. [I'll cut & paste some.]
Rom. 8:[14] For as many as are led by the Set-apart Spirit of Elohim(G-d), they are the Sons of Elohim(G-d).
[15] For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but you have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
[16] The Spirit itself beares witness with our spirit, that we are the children of Elohim(G-d):
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of Elohim(G-d), and joint-heirs with Messiah(Chr-st); if so be that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together.
[18] For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
[19] For the earnest expectation of the creature waites for the manifestation of the sons of Elohim(G-d).
[20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him who has subjected the same in hope,
[21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of Elohim(G-d).
[22] For we know that the whole creation groanes and travailes in pain together until now.
[23] And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
[24] For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen, is not hope: for what a man sees, why does he yet hope for ?
[29] For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
And (5) Consider Philippians. 2:6-11, 15:
[Php. 2:6] Who, being in the form of Elohim(G-d), thought it not robbery to be equal with Elohim(G-d):
[7] But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the stake(cross).
[9] Wherefore Elohim(G-d) also has highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name:
[10] That at the name of Yahshua(J-sus) every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
[11] And that every tongue should confess that Yahshua Messiah is Elohim(J-sus Chr-st is L-rd), to the glory of Elohim(G-d) the Father.
[15] That you may be blameless and harmless, the Sons of Elohim(G-d), without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom you shine as lights in the world;"
And now Karaite,
Thank you again for the courage to tell the truth.
YOU:"I don't see my belief up there, or at least I did not see it clear.Jesus is the Son of God, from before Creation (Earthly, material). First-"born" of Creation, through whom all things that are were made. He is God, but not the Father. The Father is the one and True God of All (creation and) Things! Jesus is God in nature, for He was begotten of God.
So, that is my answer."
ME: So, that is my answer, too!
May the force be with you
wayseeker
I'll start in decending order.
Phil,
I agree with about 95% of what you say and write, but I respectfully disagree with you on this one. I will go over each of your choices to show why I disagree with each one.
Who is Yahshua(Chr-st)?
(A)God the Son, second of three persons who are God,
incarnated in flesh, returned to heaven.
No three persons.
(B)God the Father manifested in flesh, returned to heaven.
Not the Father.
(C)Angel of the Lord manifested in flesh, returned to heaven.
Not an Angle.
(D)Ordinary man, sinful, became Son of God by anointment, resurrected & glorified.
Not ordinary(Filled with the Set-apart Spirit since before birth.);became Son of man; suffered, died, resurrected & glorified.
(E)Man only, sinless, born the Son of God, resurrected & glorified.
More than man(filled with the Set-apart Spirit since before birth(Just like Adam prior to his fall)[a later debate, please!], gave up His Elohim(G-d) status {He was the Word and Creator in the OT,the Lawgiver to Moses,the One whom Abraham served in his tent and the One that appeared to Moses,Aaron and 70 leaders of Israel [and they lived]...}, became man, suffered, died, resurrected & glorified.
(F) Yahshua(Chr-st) is Elohim(G-d),under Elohim(G-d) the Father and IS NOT part of the Trinity.
Of the previous 5 this is the most correct.
Or at the very least:
(G) NONE of the above.
If (F) is excluded; this, [IMHO] would be the only true statement.
Phil
YOU: "However, if I understand Wayseeker correctly, he means the term God as the exalted King or Ruler, the One who was given all power in heaven and earth, the Head of all men, Yahshua."
Me
I believe you do not understand me correctly. Let me correct that right now.
Elohim(G-d) is a plural unity, a family. Currently there are only two members of that family.Yahweh Elohim (G-d the Father) and Yahshua Elohim (G-d the Son). That family will grow at some future date to include most of mankind. (The Set-apart ones 1st; and then, the rest of humanity.) At this point in history [still future]Elohim(G-d)will be; Yahwew Elohim, Yahshua Elohim[exact name unknown at this time], the Firstfruits Elohim[exact names unknown at this time] and the Rest of the [Humanity now]Elohim Family.
Next SqueakBrown;
YOU:{[quoting me]"Not only do I agree with Karaite, I further disagree with your statement: "Because we can have that same divine nature that Jesus had and we won't be God."
wayseeker if you dont agree with me, then you are disagreeing with the Word of God. Because all I done was to quote what the Word says.
2 Pet 1:4
4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."}
Again point by point.
(1) we will become Elohim(G-d)
(2) "wayseeker if you dont agree with me, then you are disagreeing with the Word of God"
I would like to point out that YOU are not the 'Word of God'
The LOGOS of Elohim(Word of G-d) is described in John 1:1,14.
(3) 2 Pet. 1:4; These promises are yet to be fufilled. We don't have that 'devine nature', yet!
(4)Please consider:All of Romans 8. [I'll cut & paste some.]
Rom. 8:[14] For as many as are led by the Set-apart Spirit of Elohim(G-d), they are the Sons of Elohim(G-d).
[15] For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but you have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
[16] The Spirit itself beares witness with our spirit, that we are the children of Elohim(G-d):
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of Elohim(G-d), and joint-heirs with Messiah(Chr-st); if so be that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together.
[18] For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
[19] For the earnest expectation of the creature waites for the manifestation of the sons of Elohim(G-d).
[20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him who has subjected the same in hope,
[21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of Elohim(G-d).
[22] For we know that the whole creation groanes and travailes in pain together until now.
[23] And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
[24] For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen, is not hope: for what a man sees, why does he yet hope for ?
[29] For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
And (5) Consider Philippians. 2:6-11, 15:
[Php. 2:6] Who, being in the form of Elohim(G-d), thought it not robbery to be equal with Elohim(G-d):
[7] But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the stake(cross).
[9] Wherefore Elohim(G-d) also has highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name:
[10] That at the name of Yahshua(J-sus) every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
[11] And that every tongue should confess that Yahshua Messiah is Elohim(J-sus Chr-st is L-rd), to the glory of Elohim(G-d) the Father.
[15] That you may be blameless and harmless, the Sons of Elohim(G-d), without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom you shine as lights in the world;"
And now Karaite,
Thank you again for the courage to tell the truth.
YOU:"I don't see my belief up there, or at least I did not see it clear.Jesus is the Son of God, from before Creation (Earthly, material). First-"born" of Creation, through whom all things that are were made. He is God, but not the Father. The Father is the one and True God of All (creation and) Things! Jesus is God in nature, for He was begotten of God.
So, that is my answer."
ME: So, that is my answer, too!
May the force be with you
wayseeker
