I'll paste this to the top so that time will give a read about the mix of those frequenting this board. Please vote, and please vote only once.
Comments are welcome, but please start new threads for discussions/debates.
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Phil Maxwell
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Who do YOU say Christ is? |
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Agreement that He is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, is assumed... (Mt 16:16), so the question is really what/who, if anything, else do you say He is?
I'll paste this to the top so that time will give a read about the mix of those frequenting this board. Please vote, and please vote only once. Comments are welcome, but please start new threads for discussions/debates. Phil Maxwell
Simple Truth Ministries |
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SqueakyBrown |
tartanarmy | #61 | ||
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You have fallen for the "I AM He" delusion.
THE I AM DELUSION John 7:39-43 39        (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) 40        Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet. 41        Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee? 42        Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was? 43        So there was a division among the people because of him. John 7:51-52 51        Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth? 52        They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet. John 8:1-2 1        Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. 2        And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. John 8:12 12        Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. John 8:16-18 16        And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. 17        It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. 18        I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. John 8:21 21        Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. John 8:23-24 23        And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24        I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:28-29 28        Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. 29        And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him. John 8:58-59 58        Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59        Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. (KJV) xxx Jesus was teaching in the temple and they were questioning Him on whether or not He was the Christ. Then they all went home and came back the next day to question Him some more. When Jesus told them: you will die in your sins if you do not believe that I am He. Then in verse 58 Jesus was telling them that even before Abraham that I am . But they picked up stones to throw at Him so they cut Jesus off in the middle of His sentance and Jesus got out of there. Jesus was claiming that" I AM He" the Christ. Jesus was not claiming He was God. verse 24 and 28 Jesus said it, I am he. Jesus was saying He was the Christ that they were speaking of in John 7-41. But in is obvious why they didnt understand from John 7-39 they havent received the Holy Spirit yet. And even today many do not know the Spirit and get deceived in the verses. |
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Andrew Hummel |
Eternal life according to Jesus Christ..( John 17:3).... | #62 | ||
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Hi Danpech; When God was speaking to Moses, and "God put His hand" on Moses to cover Moses when God passed by, so all that Moses saw was God's back. ( Exodus 33:22, 17-23) God told Moses no one can see God and Live. (Exodus 33:20)(John 1:18)(1 John 4:12) As we know many did see God's Son, Jesus Christ though. Question for Danpech; Do you believe what God said to Moses ?? "That being no one can see God and live." xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 1) Yes I Danpech believe what God said to Moses. 2) No I Danpech do not believe what God said to Moses. Your answer was it number one or two ???? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx BLESSED BE THE GOD AND FATHER OF OUR, LORD JESUS CHRIST. (1 Peter 1:2,3) God Bless, Andrew |
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Danpech |
see God | #63 | ||
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>>>Question for Danpech;
Do you believe what God said to Moses ?? "That being no one can see God and live."<<< What does it *mean*? Or, was God telling Moze something that Moze didn't know of any sense of and simply had to accept it---as if God could have made up something else like it, say, "no man can see God's nose and live." Haha! Sorry, I'm getting funny, here. The scripture there implies that Moze *did* "see God", only not his front side. But, but, but, what is it that has been seen if God is, by definition, invisible? There is something *more* here than what can be had from a bland reading of the text! I think. Tell me there isn't. I know, it means that no *man* can see God and live, but women and children can, and bugs especially can. zzzzzzZZZZZAPPP! Oww, my brain. |
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Danpech |
God needs? | #64 | ||
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>>>I can't imagine the creator of all things having need to pray to anyone!<<<
Jesus said that he did not need to pray, but that he was praying for the benefit of those who heard (at Lazarus' tomb). God does not need to speak from heaven, he does so for *our* benefit. Now, in the ideal, a child believes his father's words even before the child has the ability to test the truth of these words for himself. But, this ideal has long since passed, when man bought the lie that he should be his own arbiter of truth. It is only by man's pride that man's mind fails to learn the truth without guidance and correction, and instead he deceives himself with errors. But, his errors were all committed before the Flood. Beginning with Abraham, God began doing things to compel the world to pay attention. Man threw away the God of common sense a along time ago; now we have to deal with riddles in the problem of literality. Whose literality shall we go with? Shall we short God on that, too? The entire Bible must be remiss, for it nowhere says blandly, "God did not became a man." It even says that God repented and then latert says that God does not repent, and then says God tempted Abraham and then later says that God tempts no man. There is no language fit for a narrow mind. Man is not so much blind as blinded. Even though it is evil to discourage a child from thinking, and evil to force him to remain with answers that, by remaining with them, become as good as empty, the world would end tomorrow were every little child to be as "scientific" about what his father says as are atheist "freethinkers" about what the Bible says. A good father seeks to delegate his authority to his children. But, he will cease to delegate his authority to those children who, in caring more for being delegatees than in understanding what their father means by his words, say to their brothers whom they are arguing with over what they think their father said, "Daddy said so, so I'm right and you're wrong!" Some people press their dogmas in such a way that implicitly asserts, "If God wanted us to know something more than what he has made explicit, then he would have made it explicit". You won't find that law in the Bible, so that assertion contradicts itself. The fact is that the Law states, concerning animal sacrifice, that, "and his sins shall be forgiven him". The Jews eventually took this as literally as it could logically be taken, and so they did not see its message. An animal is to a man what a man is to God. For Israel, God did all things as God, that is, all things which meant anything to us as being done by might, by power, and by authority. Then, when no more could be done in this which had not already been done (that is, in the fullness of time), God became flesh and met our needs as one of us: God did everything that meant anything to us as we are. God showed us all empathy, rather that all power or all authority, by becoming a man. Ball became red. But, God the 'Father' would be misrepresented were a man to say of his own self "I am the Father." This man Jesus was a perfect man. That was the message. God fulfilled all the law. 'Father' is a title implying 'the source of power and authority'. God needs no name. God called 'Father' refers to the transcendence of God; God outside the creation. The scriptures are clear on this. Like a human father prior to when that human has children. The father, in either case, is not defined as 'he who has children', but rather as 'he who is, and who can have children'. The nature of the father, in either case, is not that of fatherhood, but that of the nature of the one who has children; The child does not say that the nature of his father is that of the fact that his father has a child, but rather that his father is the authority and the power. Everything God says and does is designed to force men, over time, to realize that they are the one's being tried, and to show them that they have, even from the beginning, been guilty of every error. That God had not made all things plain from the beginning implies something about what God is up to, and that it is man who destroys the truth. God became a man? "Nay", you say, "'tis not possible by definition." Too bland and empty a notion of literality, like a bull in a China shop with blinders on. God=ball. man=red. God is a spirit, without form. Jesus is the name of the man, that red one. Jesus is the son of man whom God begot without a man. The truest son is essentially equal to his father, as Isaac was the "only" son of Abraham (Gen 22:16). No bland reading possible there. Leave the bland to texts meant to be. |
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Flower101 |
Re: God needs? | #65 | ||
Quote: (Heb 5:5-9 NKJV) So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: "You are My Son, Today I have begotten You." {6} As He also says in another place: "You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek"; {7} who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, {8} though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. {9} And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, |
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Squeakybro |
Re: God needs? | #66 | ||
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Flower that is a very good Spirit led reply
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zedicc |
Re: Who do YOU say Christ is? | #67 | ||
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Andrew Hummel |
Jesus Christ claims, that God is His Father...John 20:17 | #68 | ||
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zedicc says, In the book of John (1:1), xxx Andrew's thoughts, He was in the beginning with God...John 1:2 No one has seen God at any time....John 1:18 Jesus Christ says that there is only ONE GOD, that being His Father in John 17:3, 20:17. Jesus Christ says that His Father is greater then Himself...John 14:28 summary; There is no God the Son mentioned in the bible, rather this person was created by unbelievers to lead others astray... xxxxxx BLESSED BE THE GOD AND FATHER, OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. 1 Peter 1:2-3 references NKJ,KJ Andrew |
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lynnoble |
Re: Who do YOU say Christ is? | #69 | ||
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Men can be called gods. Check this out:
(John 10:34-36) Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken), say ye of him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" I think thid may be the scriptures he's referring to(?) (Psalm 82:5-7) "They know not, neither do they understand; They walk to and fro in darkness: All the foundations of the earth are shaken. I said, You are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High. Nevertheless you shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes." lynnoble |
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lynnoble |
Re: Who do YOU say Christ is? | #70 | ||
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There are many lords, and many gods, but there is only one True GOD, the Almighty GOD who, with his power he created all things. May he recieve the glory he deserves!
There is no God like him. He alone had dynamic power. (PS 106:8 )(Is 40:26 ) (Psalm 21:13 ) Be thou exalted, O Jahoweh, in thy strength: So will we sing and praise thy power." Didn't God's prophets tell us so? (Numbers 16:2 "And Moses said, "Hereby ye shall know that Jehovah hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind." John 10:25 "Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believe not: the works that I do in my Father's name, these bear witness of me." Peace and agape, lynnoble |
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lynnoble |
Re: Who do YOU say Christ is? | #71 | ||
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Numbers 16:28
"And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that Jehovah hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind." LOL! The 8 and the ) close together made sorry about that.. I thought I would paste the scripture and quote again for you. ' In Christ, lynnoble |
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Squeakybro |
Its simple | #72 | ||
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It all depends on whether one believes Jesus or not.
Jesus told us who God is. Jesus said the Father is the only true God. John 17:1-3 1        Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2        "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3        "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. (NKJ) Paul even told us who God is. Paul said the Father is the only God. 1 Cor 8:6 6        yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. (NKJ) |
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Bible512 |
Re: Who do YOU say Christ is? | #73 | ||
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2Corinthians 13:5 "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates"?
In truth God has never left us, nor forsaken us, however God makes it very clear that we FEEL like we are forsaken a lot of the time, as He chastises us when He determines that we need it. God is not the author of confusion, yet many people who read the bible are easily confused. I confess there were many things I didn't understand when I began digging deep into the scriptures. In fact I spent a couple of years and a good deal of money in various bible teachers, who I felt were much more experienced than I was. But as I was reading, I couldn't help but focus in on this verse... 1John 2:27 "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him". Yeah, I know if that verse is true then it could put a lot of bible teachers out of business, who make fortunes selling their interpretations via books, tapes, video's and DVD's, not to mention training schools. But assuming it is true, and contrary to what the preachers say, "It means exactly what it says" then why not simply ask God for help in understanding the true meaning of scripture? There may be thousands of different interpretations of scriptures, every donomination seems to have their own doctrine, and of course, they all say theirs is correct and the other guys is wrong. So what can a person do that really wants the truth? I mean how do you know if you picked the right interpretation, out of the thousands of different ones available? So God opened up my eyes and increased my faith enough to BELIEVE that His word is true and that I could really TRUST in Him, so that in my heart I have confidence that God is the best teacher in the universe and He knows how to teach me personally, and anyone else better than anyone else can. Why are people waiting for thesecond coming when Jesus already lives in your heart? It is written that Jesus ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God, which I believe is true, but where exactly is heaven? Where is the kingdom of God? If we are to believe thewords of Jesus OVER AND ABOVE the words spoken by people who sell tickets to heaven, then we would have to believe "The Kingdom of heaven is within you" So, in understanding where heaven is, according to Jesus, and knowing that Jesus ascended to heaven, and believing that 2 Corinthians 13:5 is true, then it should be pretty obvious that God is real, His words are true and that God is spirit and truth and His spirit dwells within us. Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
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SaltedPeter |
Re: louie | #74 | ||
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Squeeky Brown said: 1 Cor 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. (NKJ)
My reply: I find it irrelivant to simply quote lists of scriptures without giving any contextual background and explaining the meaning of words and context. Anyway, here is a previous saved post of mine on this verse. “Though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or on earth; as there are gods many, and lords many. Yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.” (1st Corinthians 8:5,6-ASV). This chapter commences with an examination of various foods offered to idols (verse 1), and then the eating of such foods (verse 4). Paul continues to then make a contrast between these idols, and the one true God at verse 4. At verse 5 Paul then distinguishes between these idols whom he terms “so-called gods,” and the one true God of the Scriptures. He then goes onto say in verse 5 that in contrast to the one true God, there are many “lords and gods.” This is a direct reference to these aforementioned false idols of verse 1, and it is important to note that Paul used and links together both of the terms “god” and “lord,” as if they were equivalent terms. Then in verse 6, the text does not state that ONLY God the Father is alone God. The text rather states that there is one God, and that the Father is himself this one God. So Scripture does not contradict the fact that the Son (Hebrews 1:8 , and Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4), are also called “God” in the Bible. Furthermore the Son (Hebrews 1:10) and Holy Spirit (Acts 28:25-27), also possess this divine name “YHWH” which is applied to them in New Testament quotations of Old Testament verses. So the one God is not the Father alone, but is rather the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. So this problem is resolved if we understand that the terms “God” and “Lord” are interchangeable, their being equivalent terms used at 1st Corinthians 8:6 to distinguish between the Father and the Son each as deity. So to call the Son “Lord” doesn’t imply a lack of deity on the Son’s part. A similar example in the Old Testament would be the use of the term “elohim” (God) at Genesis 1, and “YHWH” (LORD), at chapter two. These two terms are completely interchangeable, and do not imply two different Gods, or two levels of deity for two separate beings, because they’re interchangeable. So the “elohim” of Genesis 1:1, 1:2 and 1:3 etc, is also said to be the “YHWH” of Genesis 2:5, 2:7 and 2:8, they’re not different beings or deities. So with consideration to the hermeneutical background, which we’ve now discovered in Genesis, notice that at John 20:28, Jesus Christ is called both “Lord” and also “God” within the same verse, just as at Psalm 35:23-24, from which John was originally quoting, Yahweh himself is also called both “LORD” (YHWH) and “God” within the same verse. John is therefore applying the divine name ‘YHWH’ from Psalm 35:23-24 directly to Jesus at John 20:28! So in each case, both titles are applicable to the same person. Then at Matthew 11:25 God the Father is here called Lord (Kurios): “the Lord of heaven” which according to some, a lesser deity, because at 1st Corinthians 8:6 you claimed that ‘Lord’ (Kurios) as applied to Jesus Christ, implies an absence of deity! Well then if you are going to be consistent, with your own previous statements, then you must accept that if the Father is “Lord” (kurios) at Matthew 11:25, then he cannot logically also be “God” as well as Lord! So this ridiculous argument is hoisted by the petard of its own flawed logic! |
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Squeakybro |
Re: louie | #75 | ||
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I am placeing index finger between lips moving up and down rapidly, and humming. Duh!
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SaltedPeter |
Re: Jesus Christ claims, that God is His Father...John 20:17 | #76 | ||
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Andrew Hummel said: Jesus Christ says that there is
only ONE GOD, that being His Father in John 17:3, My reply: Andrew please consider each of these two very different statements: Statement 1: "Only the Father is the True God." (Never used in the Bible). Statement 2: "The Father is the only True God." (John 17:3). The first statement; ‘ONLY the Father is the True God’ is a very different one from the next statement; ‘The Father is the only True God.’ Because in the first statement, the Father and absolutely nobody else belongs to this specific category of ‘true God,’ so that the Son cannot also be the one true God according to the first statement. However, John 17:3 does not read as the first statement, but John rather uses the second statement, which places the Father in the category of true God, but so not exclusively. So that others can also belong to this category of true God as well. For at 1st John 5:20: “even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life,” so the Son also belongs to this category of true God as well. |
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Andrew Hummel |
Re: Jesus Christ claims, that God is His Father...John 20:17 | #77 | ||
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SaltedPeter says, The first statement; ‘ONLY the Father is the True God’ is a very different one from the next statement; ‘The Father is the only True God.’ Because in the first statement, the Father and absolutely nobody else belongs to this specific category of ‘true God,’ so that the Son cannot also be the one true God according to the first statement. However, John 17:3 does not read as the first statement, but John rather uses the second statement, which places the Father in the category of true God, but so not exclusively. So that others can also belong to this category of true God as well. For at 1st John 5:20: “even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life,” so the Son also belongs to this category of true God as well. Andrew's reply, Did you know in your bible the anti-christ is reffered to as "the author of confussion." God sent His Son...1 John 4:10, 9-10 Why God sent His Son..Galatians 4:4-5 Jesus Christ personal testimony as found in John 5:36-40, in SaltedPeter's bible. Jesus Christ says to SaltedPeter, If God were your Father, you would love Me, for i proceeded forth and came from God, nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. John 8:42 xxxxxxxxxxxx MAY THE GOD OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, ONE DAY BLESS US ALL...Ephesians 1:17, 17-23 references NKJ,KJ Andrew |
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SaltedPeter |
Re: Jesus Christ claims, that God is His Father...John 20:17 | #78 | ||
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Obviously the Father sent the Son into the world (John 16:28, 1st John 3:8, 4:9-14 etc). But if the Father sends the Son, then as he can't send himself, the Father cannot be the Son (Jesus) but is another distinct person.
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Mystic 2002 |
Re: Jesus Christ claims, that God is His Father...John 20:17 | #79 | ||
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I really don't wish to find fault, and nearly refrained from replying for that reason and because I was afraid my reply would be taken as an attack. But I really hope to give you something of value. It comes in the form of a question, and this question can seem to be an attack, but it isn't. If you would seriously and honestly confront it and try to reply sincerely, you may, in the end, find the benefit I seek to offer.
The question is this: Do you seek God, or do you seek an improved intellect? If you answer the question, -even if only to yourself, -and then seriously, honestly, and deeply examine your motives behind your questions in this thread, you may have a miracle of great clarity. Blessings |
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SaltedPeter |
Re: Jesus Christ claims, that God is His Father...John 20:17 | #80 | ||
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I'm a Trinitarian, do you have a problem with that and frankly are you one of these 'obey Acts 2:38 or hell' types who regard Luther, Calvin, Spurgeon and Owen as currecntly lost and in hell?
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